Author’s note: This is the analysis of one round of the 2024 Presidential debate between Biden and Trump. It is linked from a more comprehensive article.
Question: As president, would you block abortion medication?
TRUMP: First of all, the Supreme Court just approved the abortion pill. And I agree with their decision to have done that, and I will not block it.
Irrelevant and self-serving since he can’t block the decision
The statement, “I will not block it,” should have ended the discussion. He’s answered the question. Instead, he veers off with another red herring.
Of course, just because he says it, it doesn’t mean he intends to keep that promise. (He could always ask a Republican-controlled Congress to make the pills illegal, even though he has no power to block the decision.) The Detroit Free Press reported that in his first term he kept 25 campaign promises, compromised on 23, and broke 42. That’s a hell of a record. Notable failures for which he was directly accountable included:
bringing back the coal industry,
building a wall,
rather than protecting preexisting conditions in health policies, he never even put forth a plan,
replacing Obamacare with an even better program, which again he never offered despite repeated attempts to cripple the health care plan in place,
cutting the national debt (he increased it),
reviving manufacturing (manufacturing employment declined)
eliminating gun-free zones (didn’t try)
promising to stay at the White House and work rather than leaving to play golf
And if you look at this whole question that you’re asking, a complex, but not really complex – 51 years ago, you had Roe v. Wade, and everybody wanted to get it back to the states, everybody, without exception. Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, everybody wanted it back. Religious leaders.
Argument to popular appeal. (Everybody wants it.)
This is not only a lie, it’s patently absurd. Prior to Roe, the question of abortions did reside with the states. There would have been no one to challenge state laws if they wanted to leave the decision in the hands of the states. So, if no one wanted to change those, how did it end up before the Supreme Court?
And what I did is I put three great Supreme Court justices on the court, and they happened to vote in favor of killing Roe v. Wade and moving it back to the states. This is something that everybody wanted.
Now, 10 years ago or so, they started talking about how many weeks and how many of this – getting into other things, But every legal scholar, throughout the world, the most respected, wanted it brought back to the states. I did that.
Repeats argument to popular appeal.
Trump falls back on two new fallacies: Equivocation* and begging the question* He’s implying that he had nothing to do with the Dobbs decision. The Court just came up with it on their own. But he made it clear before the 2016 election that he wanted the Supreme Court to overturn Roe, and he notoriously selected three candidates who refused to tell the Senate their position on Roe during confirmation hearings, choosing instead to present the lie that “Roe is standing law.” Which it was, until they changed it.
So, this isn’t just a lie, it’s a lie buried in an equivocal statement.
Now the states are working it out. If you look at Ohio, it was a decision that was – that was an end result that was a little bit more liberal than you would have thought. Kansas I would say the same thing. Texas is different. Florida is different. But they’re all making their own decisions right now. And right now, the states control it. That’s the vote of the people.
Trump seriously downplays the results of Dobbs, which any adroit politician would do when the results aren’t what they promised. But the statement, “they’re all making their own decisions” is vague and misleading. He doesn’t distinguish between legislative decisions and decisions put to voters. In the former, legislatures almost always restrict women’s reproductive rights.
His statement “That’s the vote of the people,” is even more misleading. It begs the question, who created the situation in which voters have to get abortion rights on the ballot? And the answer is Trump’s Supreme Court.
Like Ronald Reagan, I believe in the exceptions. I am a person that believes. And frankly, I think it’s important to believe in the exceptions. Some people – you have to follow your heart. Some people don’t believe in that. But I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. I think it’s very important. Some people don’t. Follow your heart.
This is totally irrelevant, but it actually a logical fallacy called the affective fallacy* with a touch of ambiguity* (a lot of words to say very little). This is little more than a vacant expression, “I believe in exceptions” dressed up to make it sound like “I have a heart.” It only makes the question of abortion more difficult since it’s already loaded with emotion.
But you have to get elected also and – because that has to do with other things. You got to get elected.
Also irrelevant. How does this answer the question of abortion resting with the states or the abortion pill. Like Biden on Trump’s tax cuts, he’s completely lost his train of thought.
The problem they have is they’re radical, because they will take the life of a child in the eighth month, the ninth month, and even after birth – after birth.
If you look at the former governor of Virginia, he was willing to do this. He said, we’ll put the baby aside and we’ll determine what we do with the baby. Meaning, we’ll kill the baby.
Even more irrelevant, a lie, not to mention hyperbole, ad hominem, a tu quoque fallacy, a red herring, hyperbole and a gross exaggeration.
Worse, Trump equivocates late-term and partial-birth abortions with after-brith abortions, which are completely different, without explaining what any of them are. When politicians refer to after-birth abortions, they mean the extremely rare cases of fetuses that survive the abortion procedure. As Politifact found, no health care professional is allowed to end their lives as they have full legal protection. So he’s lying.
As to Virginia Governor Northam, a pediatric neurologist, he said he supported late-term abortions with the mother’s consent for third trimester abortions in cases of severe abnormalities and non-viable fetuses. So once again, Trump equivocates late-term emergency abortions with after birth abotions.
What happened is we brought it back to the states and the country is now coming together on this issue. It’s been a great thing.
Round 4a: Rebuttal
BIDEN:(A garbled response that argues) 1) The vast majority of constitutional scholars supported Roe when it was decided. 2) Returning abortion decisions to the states is like turning civil rights back to the states, with each state having a different rule.
TRUMP: There have been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border. We have a border that’s the most dangerous place anywhere in the world – considered the most dangerous place anywhere in the world. And he opened it up, and these killers are coming into our country, and they are raping and killing women. And it’s a terrible thing.
Irrelevant. Immigrants and abortion have no connection.
This is an argument he made before on the national debt with no more evidence, and, as before, made to change the subject.
His claim that the border is the most dangerous in the world is hyperbole. The claim that “it’s considered the most dangerous” is the everybody knows (ad populum) fallacy.
Lie. Noted before. Political labeled it a “pants on fire” lie.
Also, red herring, hyperbole, and an appeal to emotion.
As far as the abortion’s concerned, it is now back with the states. The states are voting and in many cases, they – it’s, frankly, a very liberal decision. In many cases, it’s the opposite.
Clearly a brain fart. Also, a contradiction. It (whatever it is) is a liberal decision, except it’s the opposite.
But they’re voting and it’s bringing it back to the vote of the people, which is what everybody wanted, including the founders, if they knew about this issue, which frankly they didn’t, but they would have – everybody want it brought back.
Ronald Reagan wanted it brought back. He wasn’t able to get it.
Everybody wanted it brought back and many presidents had tried to get it back. I was the one to do it.
And again, this gives it the vote of the people. And that’s where they wanted it. Every legal scholar wanted it that way.
This is two arguments. I returned abortion to the states, and everybody wanted abortion returned to the states. Both of them simply repeat what Trump said earlier, which is considered non-responsive. A claim is non responsive when it’s ignored or the person making the claim simply repeats what they said the first time rather than addressing the challenge raised.
(I haven’t raised the question of responsiveness before because Trump has at least tried to make one claim that would address the question before veering off onto red herrings and tangents. In this instance, he doesn’t bother.)
His suggestion that everybody wanted abortion decisions returned to the states merely repeats a gross exaggeration, an ad populum, and a lie. (See Round 4).
Round 4b: Abortion restrictions rebuttal
BASH: Seven states have no legal restrictions on how far into a pregnancy a woman can obtain an abortion. Do you support any legal limits on how late a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy?
BIDEN: The idea that the politicians – that the founders wanted the politicians to be the ones making decisions about a woman’s health is ridiculous. That’s the last – no politician should be making that decision. A doctor should be making those decisions. That’s how it should be run. That’s what you’re going to do. And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: So that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth. Again, the governor – former governor of Virginia: put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it.
So he’s in – he’s willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.
Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants it to happen.
TRUMP: Under Roe v. Wade, you have late-term abortion. You can do whatever you want. Depending on the state, you can do whatever you want.
We don’t think that’s a good thing. We think it’s a radical thing. We think the Democrats are the radicals, not the Republicans.
Back again to live-birth abortions, ripping babies out of wombs, which is contrary to fact. It’s a lie. It’s also non-responsive as he doesn’t answer the question of his limits on late-term abortion.
It’s a red herring allowing him to avoid the question as to his policies.
Contradiction, since he says Democrats don’t want live-birth abortion even though he earlier claimed they do. Then he turns around and says Democrats are the radicals, allowing doctors to do whatever they want. So that’s a double contradiction.
The idea that doctors could do anything they wanted under Roeis a lie. Roe only allowed abortions until legal viability, and then states were allowed to regulate abortions after the first trimester. It’s also a hyperbolic and a gross exaggeration.